Post by cavalier1864 on Aug 7, 2010 11:09:49 GMT -5
After our discussion last night, I wanted to give the Ram more than the quick look through I gave it the other day. Here are my thoughts on the Caestus Rules:
1) OK, so it is another mini Thunderhawk. A bit pricier than the Stormraven, which fills the same role. The Stormraven is AV12 all round, while the Caestus is 13/13/11. Stormraven has arguably better/more weapons. The Caestus also is listed as a Tank as opposed to just a lain vehicle and can thus Tank Shock, which is odd. What is equally odd is that it does not have Power of the Machine Spirit.
2) Assault Vehicle: unlike the Stormraven, the Caestus cannot move flat out and deliver troops, it is either/or. If you want to disembark troops, you are stuck moving less than 12" (BRB Pg 70). So basically this makes it less like a Stormraven and more like a fast skimming LR Crusader with less weapons.
3) Caestus Ram: OK, this rule is beyond silly. Given that this thing is designed to ram stuff to death, this is still overkill. The ramming rules (BRB pg 69) have this thing getting S16 on the ram, so why you would ever need to use the 2d6 take the highest is a mystery. I can understand the 5+ invulnerable save (sort of), but it really should be against damage from ramming. Shoot this model in the side or (preferably) the back) and no problems.
4) Afterburners: Hahahaha! Aside from ramming, these serve no practical purpose and will likely never be used. That being said, it is a ramming monster.
5) Magna-melta: 18" Melta Cannon with 5"plate. This is pretty nasty, but likely less useful than ramming.
6) Ceramite Plating: Stormravens and LRs all have this standard, so this does not surprise me.
7) Misericord: Can transport 10 Marines or Termies. OK, well a Stormraven can transport 12 marines or 6 termies, so obviously you are going to put in 10 terminators. Unlike the Stormraven, though, the Caestus cannot carry any dreadnoughts.
8) Frag Assault Launchers: Wow, frag grenades. Useless for every troop type that they carry, since marines get grenades in the first place and termies have power fists and thunder hammers and strike at low Initiative anyway. Wasteful upgrade.
9) Teleport Homer: sure, because this turkey is going to survive the first round it penetrates your lines. With rear armour 11, it is unlikely that this will ever be used. Another wasteful upgrade.
10) Firefury Missiles: Umm, this is a great one shot anti-infantry weapon, and might be useful on big boards, but seriously? Not a particularly good upgrade, all things considered, since if you are in 36" of the enemy, you should be Ramming something, not pot-shotting troops.
Overview:
Comparing this model to extant codex units, it really is not that much better than the other options. Its weapon is a bit of a waste since it will likely never get fired (which it would with PotMS). It is good at Ramming, but the thing that makes it good at ramming also means that it is unlikely to get to disembark its troops directly into assault since they cannot disembark a fast transport moving flat out. Keep in mind also that the Caestus will be in easy destruction range of your entire army when it rams something, which means that you can blow it out of the sky with impunity and shoot/assault the pinned Termies to your heart's content. All in all, you pay fewer points and get more with a Stormraven or Land Raider, the Caestus is a paper tiger. It would be devastating with PotMS, though, and these rules are not finalized.
BTW - Eldar Skimmers can move 36", it's just that they need Star Engines to do it (24" flat out + 12" for Star Engines). This means that a Wave Serpent is almost as good as a Cestus at Ramming at half the points, carries more models, and has a better chance of surviving.
1) OK, so it is another mini Thunderhawk. A bit pricier than the Stormraven, which fills the same role. The Stormraven is AV12 all round, while the Caestus is 13/13/11. Stormraven has arguably better/more weapons. The Caestus also is listed as a Tank as opposed to just a lain vehicle and can thus Tank Shock, which is odd. What is equally odd is that it does not have Power of the Machine Spirit.
2) Assault Vehicle: unlike the Stormraven, the Caestus cannot move flat out and deliver troops, it is either/or. If you want to disembark troops, you are stuck moving less than 12" (BRB Pg 70). So basically this makes it less like a Stormraven and more like a fast skimming LR Crusader with less weapons.
3) Caestus Ram: OK, this rule is beyond silly. Given that this thing is designed to ram stuff to death, this is still overkill. The ramming rules (BRB pg 69) have this thing getting S16 on the ram, so why you would ever need to use the 2d6 take the highest is a mystery. I can understand the 5+ invulnerable save (sort of), but it really should be against damage from ramming. Shoot this model in the side or (preferably) the back) and no problems.
4) Afterburners: Hahahaha! Aside from ramming, these serve no practical purpose and will likely never be used. That being said, it is a ramming monster.
5) Magna-melta: 18" Melta Cannon with 5"plate. This is pretty nasty, but likely less useful than ramming.
6) Ceramite Plating: Stormravens and LRs all have this standard, so this does not surprise me.
7) Misericord: Can transport 10 Marines or Termies. OK, well a Stormraven can transport 12 marines or 6 termies, so obviously you are going to put in 10 terminators. Unlike the Stormraven, though, the Caestus cannot carry any dreadnoughts.
8) Frag Assault Launchers: Wow, frag grenades. Useless for every troop type that they carry, since marines get grenades in the first place and termies have power fists and thunder hammers and strike at low Initiative anyway. Wasteful upgrade.
9) Teleport Homer: sure, because this turkey is going to survive the first round it penetrates your lines. With rear armour 11, it is unlikely that this will ever be used. Another wasteful upgrade.
10) Firefury Missiles: Umm, this is a great one shot anti-infantry weapon, and might be useful on big boards, but seriously? Not a particularly good upgrade, all things considered, since if you are in 36" of the enemy, you should be Ramming something, not pot-shotting troops.
Overview:
Comparing this model to extant codex units, it really is not that much better than the other options. Its weapon is a bit of a waste since it will likely never get fired (which it would with PotMS). It is good at Ramming, but the thing that makes it good at ramming also means that it is unlikely to get to disembark its troops directly into assault since they cannot disembark a fast transport moving flat out. Keep in mind also that the Caestus will be in easy destruction range of your entire army when it rams something, which means that you can blow it out of the sky with impunity and shoot/assault the pinned Termies to your heart's content. All in all, you pay fewer points and get more with a Stormraven or Land Raider, the Caestus is a paper tiger. It would be devastating with PotMS, though, and these rules are not finalized.
BTW - Eldar Skimmers can move 36", it's just that they need Star Engines to do it (24" flat out + 12" for Star Engines). This means that a Wave Serpent is almost as good as a Cestus at Ramming at half the points, carries more models, and has a better chance of surviving.
